Nick roping at Waco, Texas PRCA Rodeo


Question:

Is it true that you can tell the quality of the saddle by the length of the stitches or stitch number per inch?" - Dru

Answer:

While the stitches per inch is used as an indicator in English tack, Western saddles are a little different. A well made saddle will last for many years, and if it does, many parts will have to be replaced to keep it in service. For example, the sheepskin may need to be replaced a couple of times over the saddle's useful life. If a stitch is too short or the thread (and awl hole) is too tiny, when the sheepskin is replaced in ten or fifteen years, it will be hard to re-sew the edge without tearing through some of the holes. This also happens when the stitches are "buried" in the leather too deeply which actually makes the stitch channel very weak. I've seen some stitch grooves where the saddle maker used a blade to cut a line for his stitches instead of a stitch groover which removes a shallow channel for the stitches to rest in, and this is also an improper way to do it. The tightness of the stitch is more important in the quality of the sewing. They should be tight and not too tiny, but you don't want them real long and loose either. They should not be as tiny as the stitching on an English saddle.

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

Why do some saddles have 2 rows of stitching around the skirts? Is it just decoration? - Cindy

Answer:

No, on the skirts the second row of stitching is not decoration. The inner row of stitching serves to hold the liners ,or "plugs" (pieces of leather that reinforce all skirts) in the skirts. The outer row holds the sheepskin on. When you don't have them sewn seperately, the plugs fall out when you have to reline the skirts with sheepskin and it's messy trying to line them back up so you can sew them neatly. Most high end saddles have two rows on the skirts so this is a good indication that more handwork was done on this particular saddle.

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

Could you explain for me how to decide on what rigging placement a person should use or what criteria determine what rigging placement to use? I understand that there is full rigging, 7/8 rigging, 3/4 rigging, 5/8 rigging and center rigging. How do you decide what to use? - Nicole

Answer:

The first thing I would say is to ask the saddlemaker or store that you are getting the saddle from which position they have the most luck with for their particular tree and saddle.

Trees try to seek the position where they fit the horses back the best, and some people think that you can force them to be in different positions by rigging placement, but in my opinion you can't. (The exception to this is a saddlebronc saddle.)

In the early days of saddlemaking, all of these positions were tried, but nowadays full to 7/8 have become the standard.These positions are pretty close, and it depends on where the tree seats itself on the individual horse as to where you want the exact placement.Your saddlemaker should know where his tree sits on most horses and plan accordingly.

The further back riggings are seen on some saddles that are reproductions of antique saddles, but for secure fit, I would recommend that you stay in the full to 7/8 neighborhood.

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

I've heard that inskirt riggings pull a saddle down better, and I've also heard that riggings on top of a skirt pull one down better. Which is true? - Wendy from TN

Answer:

You probably heard this from whoever had a saddle to sell of that type at the time. I think that it's an old wives tale in either case. First of all we have to define "pull down". I define it as the saddle sitting down on the horses back so it looks like it fits well. Some people would say that it also means that the skirts lay down against the horse good too.

First of all, the thing that dictates whether a saddle sits down on the horse's back is if the tree corresponds to the shape of his back. If it's a good match, then you can probably get on or off him with a loose cinch, and the saddle will stay in place (providing that he has a wither to hold it). It doesn't matter if it's an inskirt or regular rigging, if it's built correctly. They both attach to the outside edge of the bar and pull in the same place relative to the tree. This goes for plate riggings too. If the tree doesn't fit, it doesn't matter how hard you pull on it, it's not going to seat itself.

The other thing is that people seem to think one or the other lets the skirts sit closer to the horse. Actually, this comes down to how the skirts are "blocked" or shaped wet when the saddle's being built. The more expensive the saddle, the more care that is taken with shaping the skirts. Some really cheap saddles aren't even blocked and the skirts stick out in the front and back corners. This is compounded by some of the cardboard-like filler pieces in cheaper skirts, which are made out of composite leather, and are real stiff and resist bending. It doesn't matter how tight you cinch these up, they're not going to mold to the horse.

The decision for which rigging to use is dictated by how you want it to feel and for which event you'll be using the saddle for. They're both good choices when built by a knowledgeable saddlemaker.

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

Can you please clear up a few questions I have about Trees? What is the difference between a Semi quarter horse bars and full quarter horse bars and regular quarter horse bars..  Which one is better for a horse with high withers and which one is better for a mutten back horse? Thanks! - Ginny

Answer:

Those terms deal with the distance between the bars , usually measured at the gullet. Full Quarter horse is the widest, then Regular, then Semi. These terms are to get you in the ball park but they won't tell you the exact fit you need for a specific horse. There are several problems with them; the measurements vary from treemaker to treemaker, the shape of the bar influences fit as much as the distance between the bars, and the names are misleading. For example, my reining tree has a semi Quarter horse gullet but it fits Arabs and Morgans too. The name does not mean it's breed specific.

What I'm trying to say is that  these terms will tell you in comparing one model saddle by one maker which is the widest fit but if you compare different styles and makes, it's comparing apples to oranges.   

Generally a high withered horse would do better with a narrower tree and a mutton withered horse would do better with a full Quarter horse gullet but you can affect this fit also simply by raising or lowering the height of the swells.

I don't know if this cleared up your questions but if maybe you can see that there are no absolutes. You have to either look at the fit of the raw tree or ride the finished saddle long enough to sweat the back and see what it looks like afterwards. Good Luck!

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

I have a barrel racing saddle that is too small for me after twenty years but I love it. It also causes two dry spots on my Tennessee walking horse. Can I just have a saddlemaker change the seat or whatever so I can keep my saddle.  I love the shape of the seat and the pommels, how they triangle in. If so, do you do this kind of thing? - April

Answer:

I can answer your question a couple of ways. First of all if you have the money to spend, you can get just about anything done to your saddle that you want to do.

I'd recommend that you save your money though. It's hard to enlarge a saddle seat because you either have to pull the tree apart and recover it or put a larger tree in. (It's easier making it smaller). When you do this, your old parts won't fit properly and you'll have to replace them. By the time you do this you could probably have put a good chunk of money towards a new or used saddle that would fit better.

The other thing to consider is that the saddle is probably too narrow for your horse as he has dry spots. Maybe a change would be good for him too. Yes you can change the bars to fit him better, but this also involves pulling the tree apart and a lot of expense. If you like the configuration of your pommel, etc. you can take it to a saddlemaker and he can probably order you a similar style tree in a larger size that would also have more width for your horse in front.  Good Luck!

- Nick Pernokas 


Question:

Hi I have a brand new saddle, the color is a very very light chestnut, I'd like it to be a nice medium to deep chestnut color. What type of oil or product can I use on it to achieve this look? I have used neatsfoot oil with very minimal results. Help please! 

- Debbie from PA

Answer:

Unfortunately a new saddle has a shellac like finish applied to the surface of the leather to make it shiny and to seal the leather pores from dirt. This makes it hard for oil to penetrate and if it does, it's uneven. If it's a higher quality saddle it will already have some oil under the finish but may still be light colored.  My suggestion is not to try to get it darker until you've used it for a while and then clean it well with saddle soap . The soap and the wear will break down the finish and allow you to oil it and then refinish it.

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

What causes dry spots on a horse's back? - Greg, Oklahoma

Answer:

Dry spots are caused by the saddle applying more pressure in this area than in the surrounding area . This reduces the circulation and the horse doesn't sweat in this area. In my book their are some pictures of this and some creative solutions. 

- Nick Pernokas


Question:

For Christmas I received my first "new" saddle. It is a barrel racing saddle, light oil, roughout.  This is where my question comes in, my previous saddle was not only all smooth leather but also dark.  I don't know how to treat the leather, I don't want to oil it because I would like it to stay light in color but I don't want it to dry out and crack either.  I have used saddler's balm on the inside of the fenders but don't want to touch the roughout on the front for fear that I will darken it.  What can I do?  Is there anyway that I can condition the front of the fenders without darkening the leather?  I am between a rock and a hard place because my breast collar is already cracking and I don't mind replacing it if I have to but I can't justify ruining a perfectly good saddle for my lack of knowledge.  Any information would be appreciated.  Thanks,  Lacy Black

Answer:

Unfortunately anything that you do to leather to clean or condition it, will darken the leather. This is why pleasure horse riders just use a shop vac to blow the dust off their saddles rather than cleaning with a soap etc.(To keep them light colored).With rough out leather you have an additional problem in that if you use a saddle soap on it ,it will slick down the rough out.

I personally think that if the saddle is new and not dirty, you would be ahead of the game to oil JUST the rough out parts with PURE neatsfoot oil now as it will break in better and keep it from drying out. Even the pure oil will darken the leather though. Do not oil the smooth parts of the saddle or get near the padded seat if you do decide to oil the rough . In my book I have a section on care of leather that talks about this.

Sorry, this really isn't what you wanted to hear... Thanks!

PS.-If the breast collar is new and already cracking, that's the fault of the leather and not your care- try to return it!

- Nick Pernokas


Do you have a question for Nick Pernokas?
Nick would love to answer any saddle making question you may have.
Please feel free to email your questions to
pernokassaddlery@centurylink.net.

We will post a few of the questions and Nick will try to answer the rest personally.


 "He who's not busy being born is a busy dying"
-  Bob Dylan


Pernokas Saddlery
Nick and Lindy Pernokas
3891 CR 351
Stephenville, TX  76401
Phone: (254) 968-7161
Email: pernokassaddlery@centurylink.net.


Last Updated 03/25/2005